The weekend workshop so far has been a wonderful event full of gasification enthusiasm. We have attendees from all over the country and a few who have traveled from Ethiopia and the UK!
Jim tells the crowd a bit about the History of ALL Power Labs:
http://www.youtube.c...avA&hl=en&fs=1
A few images from Saturday's Gasifier making!
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#2
ChrisM
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Posted 28 October 2009 - 08:25 PM
I greatly enjoyed the recent workshop. APL ought to charge at least $50 for future events.
The need for fine-tuning the gasifier in the startup phase is leading me to suspect that there is an optimum system size larger than the present GEK units. If an "engineer" is going to do all the work starting and monitoring the system, it makes more sense running a 30 KwH genset for four hours than a 3KwH genset for two hours. It would be better still if the unit were used in cogeneration situations that had a chance of producing something marketable. Putting power back into the grid, unfortunately, will be at the low end of the economic returns spectrum until electricity prices become real (and much higher). I'm a newbie and would welcome contrary opinions.
Chris Mendosa
The need for fine-tuning the gasifier in the startup phase is leading me to suspect that there is an optimum system size larger than the present GEK units. If an "engineer" is going to do all the work starting and monitoring the system, it makes more sense running a 30 KwH genset for four hours than a 3KwH genset for two hours. It would be better still if the unit were used in cogeneration situations that had a chance of producing something marketable. Putting power back into the grid, unfortunately, will be at the low end of the economic returns spectrum until electricity prices become real (and much higher). I'm a newbie and would welcome contrary opinions.
Chris Mendosa
#3
bear@apl
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Posted 29 October 2009 - 05:47 AM
Hi Chris,
Thanks. Yes, it was great to be able to talk and interact directly with a lot of folks at the workshop.
See Steve's post on automation. As you saw, these units still require a good deal of hands on time. That is way the kits are still experimenters kits: they provide an opportunity to explore the principles underlying the technology and a platform to develop on. It's been about 1 1/2 years since the first GEK was produced, and we've come a long way since then. But there is more road ahead.
There is definitely an audience for something more "turn key". We're moving forward on that as much as possible in house, and welcome input and discussion from the larger community on this.
Addressing your primary point, yes, up to some reasonable power output, the amount of effort/attention the units require should remain relatively constant, which would suggest a larger output to be better, assuming the value to the end user is constant per unit of heat or power. Over sizing a system to heat a house would just lead to wasted heat, for example.
I estimated we were putting 3.5 kW of load on the generator. I believe the engine could produce enough torque to power a 10 kW generator, although the current generator on the skid is rated at 7 kW. The temperature at the top of the restriction was lower than ideal for tar cracking, suggesting we could have (and should have) run a more significant load. IIRC, we were pulling around 2 inH2O with the genset, which was quite low relative to what is suggested by my testing:
http://gekgasifier.p... Run Comparison
We figure that 30 kW is likely the upper end of what the standard GEK outer dimensions could support.
Thanks for the input. I'd also welcome other opinions.
Cheers,
Bear
Thanks. Yes, it was great to be able to talk and interact directly with a lot of folks at the workshop.
See Steve's post on automation. As you saw, these units still require a good deal of hands on time. That is way the kits are still experimenters kits: they provide an opportunity to explore the principles underlying the technology and a platform to develop on. It's been about 1 1/2 years since the first GEK was produced, and we've come a long way since then. But there is more road ahead.
There is definitely an audience for something more "turn key". We're moving forward on that as much as possible in house, and welcome input and discussion from the larger community on this.
Addressing your primary point, yes, up to some reasonable power output, the amount of effort/attention the units require should remain relatively constant, which would suggest a larger output to be better, assuming the value to the end user is constant per unit of heat or power. Over sizing a system to heat a house would just lead to wasted heat, for example.
I estimated we were putting 3.5 kW of load on the generator. I believe the engine could produce enough torque to power a 10 kW generator, although the current generator on the skid is rated at 7 kW. The temperature at the top of the restriction was lower than ideal for tar cracking, suggesting we could have (and should have) run a more significant load. IIRC, we were pulling around 2 inH2O with the genset, which was quite low relative to what is suggested by my testing:
http://gekgasifier.p... Run Comparison
We figure that 30 kW is likely the upper end of what the standard GEK outer dimensions could support.
Thanks for the input. I'd also welcome other opinions.
Cheers,
Bear
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