4 replies to this topic

[ibrahim]

hi guys

i would like to know on how i'm going to start

to store the syngas in stainless steel vessel???

about the pressure and temperature??

is there any kind of software could predict it

I have go through some journal, they said it would be predicted using

SAS (statistic analysis programmed) did anyone know about this programmed??

thanks for any comment.... :)

[HarryN]

Hi, you can do a lot of fancy things with statistical models, etc.  OTOH, sometimes a simple approach is close enough for a first order understanding of what is needed.

Going back to basics, and making some generalizations, just use the simple gas fomula:

PV=nRT

and assume that the molecular weight (average) of the gas is very close to CO (MW about 28).  This should get you to within 25%, which is pretty close for many engineering applications.

After a closer examination, what you will likely find is:
- Air blown gasifiers make dilute fuel.  If you are serious about compression storage, consider using an oxygen blow gasifier

Common methods used to store dilute fuels:
a) Large bag bladders
- Think tents filled with gas

b) Floating Drum
- imagine a 30 gallon drum upside down inside of a 55 gallon drum
- both are full of water to start with, with just a tiny pocket of air inside of the 30 gallon drum
- inject the gas into the 30 gallon drum and it will float, draw it off, and it sinks.
- plan to make big drums

Good luck

Harry

[ibrahim]

HarryN said:

Hi, you can do a lot of fancy things with statistical models, etc.  OTOH, sometimes a simple approach is close enough for a first order understanding of what is needed.

Going back to basics, and making some generalizations, just use the simple gas fomula:

PV=nRT

and assume that the molecular weight (average) of the gas is very close to CO (MW about 28).  This should get you to within 25%, which is pretty close for many engineering applications.


Good luck

Harry

thanks for your attention

but where 25% come from???
using that equation??
how?

[HarryN]

Hi, sorry, didn't read your second question.

There are many ways to do volume and density calculations of a gas.  In order to make easier, scientist use H2 and He as sort of "perfect gas examples".  The formulas commonly used are valid for these gases under many temperature and pressure conditions.

A useful example of how other gases differ in properties from He, is to consider some common liquids.  Water, cream, milk shake, and honey.  They are similar, but different.  Same with gasses.

It is not as common now, but the older text books used to draw curves to compare the properties of real gasses to He and how much they were different - so up to 25% error, is reasonable given what is going on.

Your home is also built assuming that the properties of wood and stone are not perfectly understood or known, but it still stands.  The reason, is that people use an estimate, add in some margin of safety, and work from there.

[HarryN]

Coming back to your original point, and your private message - if you want to compress the fuel for storage, it can be done.  It has about 1/5th of the energy of natural gas, so you just need to plan on having 5x the pressure, or 5x the volume to store it in.

Natural gas does not store energy very densely already compared to other fuels, its strength lies in the consistent quality delivered (from cleaning it up)  and massive piping network.

If a company found the identical composition of natural gas in the ground that comes from our gasifiers, they would plug the hole or burn it off.  The economics to turn it into salable fuel and run the pipes would not be worth it.